Category: Blog

You’ve got 12 browser tabs open, three YouTube videos paused halfway through, and you still don’t know what size to cut the boards. Sound familiar?

The short answer is this: outdoor storage bench plans don’t have to be complicated. You can build a bench that’s solid and attractive, with a storage compartment under the seat, using basic tools, common lumber, and a free plan, all in a single weekend. This guide gives you everything: a curated list of plans, exact dimensions, a shopping list, step-by-step instructions, and design options to fit any backyard, front porch, or pool side setup.

This article contains affiliate links. We may earn a commission on purchases made through them, at no extra cost to you.

✅ Quick Summary, What You Need to Know:

• The most popular bench size is 45 inches wide, 17 inches deep, and 19 1/2 inches tall
• Cedar is the best wood for outdoor use, rot-resistant and naturally beautiful
• Cedar fence pickets can cut your material cost to under $50
• A piano hinge makes the hinged lid clean, strong, and easy to open
• Most beginners finish their first build in one weekend with basic tools

—

20 Free Outdoor Storage Bench Plans You Can Build This Weekend

Let’s get straight to the options. Not every plan fits every builder, so here’s a breakdown of the most popular free and paid woodworking plans across skill levels and design styles.

Curated Plan Comparison Table

Ana White (anawhite.com) is still the gold standard for free woodworking plans in the DIY furniture space. Her outdoor storage bench designs come with full cut lists, shopping lists, and photos, making them perfect for beginners.

Instructables hosts community-built plans with real builder photos, including the widely shared “Excellent & Easy Garden Storage Bench” that’s been replicated thousands of times. The comment sections alone are a goldmine for troubleshooting.

Pinterest is great for discovery, search “outdoor storage bench plans free” and you’ll find hundreds of pinned tutorials, though quality varies. Always follow the pin back to the original source before buying materials.

If you want a digital plan that covers multiple styles in one download, with professional-grade drawings, dimensions, and material breakdowns, a paid outdoor furniture plans pack is worth the small investment, especially if you’re planning more than one project.

—

Materials and Tools You Need to Build an Outdoor Storage Bench

Shopping List (Standard 48″W Bench)

This list covers the most popular beginner build, a cedar slat bench with a hinged lid and full-width storage compartment. Think of it as your complete materials list before you set foot in the hardware store.

Lumber:

• 6 × 2x4x8 cedar boards (frame and seat slats), approx. $6, $8 each at Home Depot
• 2 × 1x6x8 cedar boards (front/back panels), approx. $10 each
• 1 × sheet of 3⁄4″ exterior-grade plywood (bottom panel), approx. $30

Hardware:

• 1 × 48″ piano hinge (for the lid), approx. $15
• Box of deck screws (2″ and 3″), approx. $10
• 2 × lid support chains or lid supports, approx. $8
• Wood glue (exterior grade), approx. $5

Finishing:

• Sandpaper (80, 120, 220 grit)
• Exterior wood stain or sealer (Thompson’s WaterSeal or Minwax Helmsman)

Total estimated cost: $80, $110

Want to cut that in half? Swap the dimensional cedar for cedar fence pickets, they run about $2, $3 each at Home Depot and Lowe’s and are more than strong enough for a bench seat and frame.

Tools You’ll Need

• Circular saw or miter saw
• Drill/driver
• Kreg Jig (optional but highly recommended for pocket holes)
• Tape measure
• Speed square
• Clamps (at least 4)
• Sander or sanding block

You don’t need a full workshop. A basic drill, a circular saw, and a Kreg Jig will handle 90% of this build.

—

Outdoor Storage Bench Dimensions: Width, Height, and Depth Guide

Getting the bench dimensions right matters more than most people think. Build it too shallow and it’s uncomfortable to sit on. Build it too tall and your feet dangle. Here’s the breakdown.

Standard Bench Dimensions

19 1/2 inches tall is the sweet spot for most adults. It’s comfortable for sitting and matches the height of most patio chairs. If you’re building a front porch bench that doubles as a seat and step, you might go lower, around 16-17 inches.

17 inches deep gives you a comfortable outdoor bench seat without making the bench feel like a park bench. It also provides roughly 13-14 inches of usable internal storage depth.

Is 12 Inches Deep Enough for a Bench?

Technically, yes, but it’s not comfortable for most adults. A 12-inch depth feels cramped and forces you to perch rather than sit. The standard depth of an outdoor bench is 15-18 inches. Stick to at least 17 inches deep for a daily-use storage bench.

How Deep Should a Built-In Storage Bench Be?

A built-in storage bench is typically 18-20 inches deep because it’s fixed to a wall or deck railing, so you can use the full depth for seating. The storage compartment underneath can go as deep as the structure allows, usually 12-16 inches of clear interior space.

—

Foto: Iulian Sandu via Pexels

How to Build an Outdoor Storage Bench in 8 Easy Steps

This is a step-by-step guide for the most popular design: a 48-inch cedar bench with a hinged lid and open-bottom storage compartment. Skill level: beginner. These build plans follow a simple design that first-timers can tackle with confidence, no advanced joinery, no specialized equipment.

Step 1, Cut Your Lumber to Length

Start with your cut list. Using 2x4x8 cedar boards:

• 4 pieces at 48″ (seat frame front/back and interior supports)
• 4 pieces at 14″ (seat frame sides and interior supports)
• 4 pieces at 16″ (legs)
• Slats: 7-8 pieces at 48″ from 1×4 or fence pickets (lid and front panel)

Measure twice. Cut once. Yes, that’s a cliché. It’s also the most violated rule in woodworking.

Step 2, Build the Base Frame

Assemble a rectangular frame using two 48″ boards and two 14″ boards. Use deck screws (3″) and a Kreg Jig for pocket holes if you have one. This is the bottom of the storage compartment.

Step 3, Attach the Legs

Cut four legs to 16″ from 2×4 cedar. Attach one to each corner of the base frame, flush with the outer edges. Use two deck screws per leg, plus wood glue for extra strength.

Step 4, Build the Upper Frame (Seat Frame)

Repeat Step 2 to create a second rectangular frame identical to the base. This sits on top of the legs and forms the perimeter of the seat area. Attach it to the top of the legs with screws.

Step 5, Add Interior Supports

Add one or two horizontal supports across the middle of the upper frame (the 14″ pieces) to support the lid when it’s closed. These also stiffen the whole structure.

Step 6, Build the Lid

Cut 7-8 slat boards to 48″ for the slat design lid. Space them evenly (about 1⁄4″ gap between slats) across two shorter 2×4 cross pieces. Screw from below so no fasteners show on top. This is your bench seat and lid in one.

Step 7, Attach the Piano Hinge

Flip the lid upside down. Position it flush against the back of the upper frame. Attach the piano hinge along the full back edge, one side to the lid, one side to the top of the back frame board. A full-length piano hinge distributes weight evenly and prevents warping over time.

Add lid support chains or lid supports on both inside ends so the lid doesn’t swing back and stress the hinge.

Step 8, Add Panels, Sand, and Finish

Attach cedar boards or plywood panels to the front and sides of the bench frame to enclose the storage compartment. Leave the bottom open (great for ventilation) or add a plywood floor if you’re storing items that need a flat surface.

Sand everything, start with 80-grit to knock off rough edges, then 120-grit, then 220-grit for a smooth finish.

Apply two coats of Thompson’s WaterSeal or a Minwax exterior stain. Let dry fully between coats.

That’s it. Your outdoor storage bench is done.

—

Best Wood for an Outdoor Storage Bench (Cedar, Pine, Pressure-Treated)

This question comes up in every beginner woodworking forum, and the answer isn’t one-size-fits-all. Here’s how the main options compare.

Cedar, The Best All-Around Choice

Cedar is naturally rot-resistant, lightweight, and easy to work with. It smells great fresh-cut, holds screws well, and weathers beautifully to a silver-gray if left unfinished. It’s the go-to wood storage bench material for garden storage bench and porch storage bench projects, and for good reason.

Using cedar fence pickets instead of dimensional cedar lumber cuts your material cost significantly. Eight pickets at a hardware store typically cost $20, $30 total, less than two 2x4x8 cedar boards.

Pressure-Treated Lumber, Best for Ground Contact

Pressure treated lumber is treated with chemicals that prevent rot and insect damage. It’s ideal for a built-in storage bench that sits directly on a deck or ground-level patio. It’s heavier and harder to cut than cedar, and it needs time to dry before finishing. It’s also slightly rougher to work with, so it’s less ideal for seats where skin contact is frequent.

Pine, Budget Option with Trade-Offs

Pine is cheap and easy to find, but it’s not naturally rot-resistant. If you build with pine, you must seal it well and reapply finish every year or so. It works fine for a front porch bench that’s under cover, but it’ll struggle exposed to full weather cycles without consistent maintenance.

Quick Comparison

—

Foto: Valentin Angel Fernandez via Pexels

Design Variations: Hinged Lid, Slat Design, Pallet Bench, and More

Not every outdoor storage bench looks the same. Here’s a breakdown of the most popular styles, with honest pros and cons for each.

Hinged Lid Bench

The most popular design by far. The entire seat lifts up on a piano hinge to reveal the storage compartment below. Clean, functional, and easy to access.

Pros: Easy access, keeps contents dry, looks polished

Cons: Takes more hardware, lid can warp if not built correctly

This is the design covered in the step-by-step section above. It works for pool side storage (towels, floats), front porch (shoes, umbrellas), and backyard patios (cushions, garden tools).

Slat Design Bench

A slat design uses evenly spaced boards for the seat and sometimes the sides. It has a classic, airy look and handles rain well because water drains through the gaps.

Pros: Great drainage, classic look, easy to build

Cons: Not ideal for storing small items (they can fall through the gaps)

Many free plans on Ana White and Pinterest use this design because it’s forgiving for beginners, small gaps hide minor inconsistencies.

Pallet Bench with Storage

A pallet bench with storage uses reclaimed wood pallets as the main structure. You stack two pallets, add a simple lid, and you have a bench for almost nothing.

Pros: Nearly free, eco-friendly, rustic aesthetic

Cons: Pallets vary in size and quality, some are treated with chemicals not safe for home use. Always check the pallet markings (HT = heat treated = safe; MB = methyl bromide = avoid).

Built-In Storage Bench

A built-in storage bench is attached to a wall, deck railing, or fence. It’s fixed in place and often spans a longer run, 6 to 12 feet, for maximum seating and storage.

Pros: Maximizes space, looks intentional and custom

Cons: Requires more planning and basic carpentry skills, not portable

This style is common on decks and pergolas. If you’re building one, pressure treated lumber for the frame is recommended. It also falls squarely in the category of outdoor storage furniture that adds real value to your space, both functionally and visually.

—

How to Save Money: Building with Cedar Fence Pickets

If budget is a concern, and let’s be honest, it usually is, cedar fence pickets are the single best cost-cutting move in this entire project.

Standard cedar pickets are 1⁄2″ to 3⁄4″ thick and 51⁄2″ wide, sold in 6-foot lengths. At Home Depot or Lowe’s, they typically run $2.50, $4 each. Compare that to a full 1×6 cedar board at $10, $14, and the math is obvious.

A complete outdoor storage bench using cedar fence pickets for the panels, lid slats, and trim, combined with standard 2x4s for the structural frame, comes in at $40, $60 total. That’s a real build, not a downgraded one.

The 2x4s handle all the load-bearing work (frame and legs), so the pickets just need to look good and keep the structure enclosed. They do that job perfectly.

For beginner woodworking, this combo is almost impossible to beat on value. Search “DIY outdoor storage bench with cedar fence pickets” on YouTube, channels like Backyard Life have built entire tutorial series around this exact approach.

If you’d rather skip the trial-and-error and get proven outdoor furniture plans with full cut lists and shopping lists already tailored to fence picket builds, this plan pack is worth checking out, it covers multiple bench styles in one download.

—

Foto: Maaz Ali via Pexels

Finishing, Weatherproofing, and Maintaining Your Outdoor Wood Bench

Sanding and Prep

Before any finish goes on, sand the entire bench. Work through grits: 80 → 120 → 220. Pay extra attention to the seat surface, this is where skin and fabric contact happens most.

Wipe down with a tack cloth or damp rag to remove all dust before applying any finish.

Best Finishes for Outdoor Wood

Thompson’s WaterSeal is the most common clear exterior sealer for outdoor wood projects. It repels water, resists UV fading, and dries clear. Apply two coats. It’s available at virtually every hardware store.

Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane gives a slightly amber tone and more gloss. It’s excellent for painted or stained benches where you want a durable top coat.

For a colored finish, use an exterior-grade deck stain before the sealer. This gives you UV protection plus color in one step.

Maintenance Schedule

• Every spring: Inspect for cracks, loose screws, and peeling finish
• Every 1-2 years: Reapply exterior sealer or stain
• After heavy rain seasons: Let the bench dry fully before storing cushions or items inside

One tip most people skip: store the bench’s removable cushions inside during winter, or at least inside the storage compartment itself. The bench frame handles weather fine, cushions don’t.

—

Beginner Woodworking Tips Before You Start

Building your first outdoor storage bench as a beginner woodworking project is totally doable. But here are a few things that’ll save you frustration:

• Pre-drill all your holes near the ends of boards to prevent splitting, especially with cedar and pine
• Clamp before you screw, boards shift during fastening, and a clamp keeps everything aligned
• A Kreg Jig is worth it, pocket hole joints are strong, fast, and hide fasteners for a cleaner look
• Label your cut pieces with painter’s tape and a marker right after cutting, it sounds obvious until you have 22 pieces on the garage floor looking identical
• Don’t skip the finish, bare cedar lasts a few seasons; sealed cedar lasts a decade or more

Free plans from Ana White are a great starting point for true beginners. Her instructions assume you’re starting from zero and explain every step without jargon.

—

Get Detailed Plans That Include Everything in One Place

If you’ve been collecting ideas from multiple tabs and still feel like you’re missing the full picture, the exact drawings, the precise cut list, the hardware specs, a single well-organized digital plan pack is the fastest shortcut.

This collection of outdoor furniture plans covers multiple bench styles, including hinged lid designs, slat benches, and built-in options. Everything is in one place, so you spend your weekend building, not searching.

—

FAQ, Outdoor Storage Bench Plans

How much does it cost to build an outdoor storage bench from scratch?

Most DIY outdoor storage benches cost between $40 and $120 in materials, depending on the wood you choose. Using cedar fence pickets instead of dimensional lumber is the biggest money-saver, you can build a solid bench for under $50 that way.

Can I use cedar fence pickets to build a storage bench?

Yes, and it’s one of the most budget friendly options available. Cedar fence pickets are usually sold in bundles at Home Depot or Lowe’s for a fraction of the cost of dimensional cedar. They’re light, naturally rot-resistant, and easy to cut and sand.

How long does it take to build a DIY outdoor storage bench?

A beginner can finish a basic outdoor storage bench in one weekend, roughly 6 to 10 hours of work. More complex builds with a piano hinge lid or a built-in storage bench design may take an extra half-day for finishing and hardware installation.

What tools do I need to build an outdoor storage bench?

At minimum, you’ll need a circular saw or miter saw, a drill/driver, a tape measure, a square, and clamps. A Kreg Jig is extremely helpful for pocket hole joinery, especially for beginners who want clean, strong joints without visible fasteners.

How do I weatherproof a wooden outdoor storage bench?

Sand the wood smooth, then apply at least two coats of an exterior-grade finish. Thompson’s WaterSeal works well for a clear protective coat, while Minwax makes stains that add color and UV protection. Reapply every one to two years for lasting protection.

What is the ideal height for a sitting bench with storage?

The standard comfortable sitting height is 17 to 19 inches from the floor to the top of the seat. The most commonly cited target in bench plans is 19 1/2 inches tall, which works for most adults and pairs well with standard patio table heights.

You’ve got a sunny patch of yard, a list of vegetables you want to grow, and zero idea where to start with actually building something. Sound familiar?

Here’s the short answer: a raised garden bed is one of the easiest DIY outdoor projects you can build in a weekend, and you don’t need a carpentry degree to do it. The most popular plan is a 4 x 8 raised bed built from 1-by-6 boards, which costs around $80, $150 in materials and takes about two hours to assemble.

This article contains affiliate links. We may earn a commission on purchases made through them, at no extra cost to you.

This guide gives you everything in one place, exact dimensions, cut lists for three different styles, material options, soil mixes, and planting layouts. No fluff, no “maybe try this”, just real plans you can follow from the first cut to the first tomato.

Quick summary before we dig in:

✅ A 4-foot-wide bed is the sweet spot, you can reach the center from either side without stepping in

✅ Natural cedar is the best wood for longevity, expect 10-15+ years outdoors

✅ A standard 4x8x12-inch bed needs roughly 20-22 bags of soil (or about 3.5 cubic yards in bulk)

✅ You can build a basic raised garden box for under $100 if you choose the right lumber

✅ Raised bed with legs plans are covered here too, perfect if bending down is off the table

—

Raised Garden Bed Plans: Sizes, Dimensions, and Layouts

Before you buy a single board, you need to know what size makes sense for your space and your body.

Standard Raised Bed Dimensions

The most important rule: keep the width at 4 feet or less. That’s the distance most people can comfortably reach from the side, about 2 feet on each side. Go wider and you’ll be stepping in to reach the middle, which defeats the whole purpose.

Common sizes and what they’re good for:

Raised Bed Depth, How Deep Do You Actually Need?

This one gets debated a lot. Here’s the honest breakdown:

• 6 inches: Herbs, lettuce, and shallow-rooted greens
• 12 inches: Most vegetables, tomatoes, peppers, beans, cucumbers
• 18-24 inches: Root crops like carrots, parsnips, beets

If your bed sits on native soil (not a deck or patio), roots can grow down into the ground below, so a 12-inch bed works for nearly everything. If it’s on a hard surface, go deeper.

A standard 12-inch-deep build a raised bed plan uses two layers of 1×6 boards stacked on top of each other, since a 1×6 is actually 5.5 inches wide. Two boards = 11 inches of depth, which is close enough.

Free Raised Garden Bed Plans PDF, What to Look For

Sites like Instructables and Reddit r/DIY have community-shared plans with real photos. When you download free plans, always check that they include:

• Exact dimensions in inches
• A cut list with number of pieces
• Corner joint method (butt joint vs. lap joint)
• Hardware list (screw type, length, quantity)

If you want a done-for-you planning tool, the Almanac Garden Planner from the Old Farmer’s Almanac is one of the most referenced tools online for mapping your raised bed vegetable garden layout digitally before you build anything.

—

How to Build a Raised Garden Bed Step by Step

Let’s build the most popular version: a 4×8 raised bed using 1-by-6 boards, 12 inches deep.

Materials and Cut List for a 4×8 Raised Garden Bed

Lumber:

• 4 pieces at 8 feet long (long sides, each side panel gets 2 boards stacked)
• 4 pieces at 36 inches long (short ends, cut from longer boards)
• 4 corner stakes: 2×2 or 2×4, cut to 12 inches long (longer if you want them in-ground for stability)

Hardware:

• 2.5-inch exterior-rated screws (deck screws work well), about 40-50 screws total
• Optional: L-brackets for extra corner strength

Tools needed:

• Circular saw or miter saw
• Drill/driver
• Tape measure, square, pencil

Step-by-Step Build Instructions

Step 1, Cut your boards.

If you bought pre-cut 8 8 foot boards, cut 4 of them in half to get your 36 inches long short-end pieces. You’ll have 8 pieces for the long sides and 4 pieces for the ends.

Actually, let’s be precise. For a true 4×8 bed with the corner stakes sitting inside:

• Long side panels: 8 feet (96 inches), no cutting needed
• Short end panels: 45 inches each (96-2×2 stake width, adjusted for your stake thickness)
• If using 2×2 corner stakes (actually 1.5 inches), short panels = 93 inches minus 3 inches = 45 inches on each short end

Many builders simplify this and do butt joints with 16 1/2 inches overlap pieces, so check your specific plan.

Step 2, Build the short ends first.

Stack 2 short boards. Clamp a corner stake flush at each end. Screw through the boards into the stake, 2 screws per board, so 4 screws per corner.

Step 3, Attach the long side panels.

Stand up both short end assemblies. Fit the long side panels between them (or overlap them at the corners, depending on your joint style). Drive 2 screws per board through the long panel into each corner stake.

Step 4, Set 4 pieces on the ground.

Flip the frame right-side up. Place it in your chosen spot. Use a level to check that the top edge is even, shim with gravel if one corner dips.

Step 5, Add a center support stake (for 8-foot beds only).

A single 2×4 stake driven into the middle of each long side prevents the boards from bowing out over time as the soil pushes against them.

That’s it. No fancy joinery. No woodworking experience required.

—

Raised Garden Bed with Legs (Elevated Planter Plans)

A raised bed with legs, also called an elevated planter, changes the game for anyone who has trouble kneeling or bending down for extended periods.

Raised Garden Bed Plans with Legs, Dimensions

The most comfortable working height is 30 to 36 inches from the ground to the top of the bed. That puts the soil surface at counter height, so you can work from a chair or standing without hunching.

Materials for an elevated planter (2×4 ft bed at 32 inches tall):

Attach the box to the legs first using pocket screws or direct screwing from outside the leg into the box corner. Then install the bed frame slats across the bottom with 1-inch gaps for drainage. Staple landscape fabric over the slats before filling with soil.

For extra stability, add a lower cross brace, a 22 inch piece of 2×4 spanning between the legs on each short side, positioned about 10 inches above the ground.

Rolling Steel Planter Option

If you want to move the bed around (following the sun, or just getting it out of the way), a rolling steel planter with locking casters is worth considering. These are typically metal-framed boxes on wheels, not a true wood build, but a legitimate alternative that several Reddit r/DIY members swear by for patios.

Check out this resource for elevated and standard raised garden bed plans built for every skill level: Browse raised garden bed plans here

—

Foto: Jason Youngman via Pexels

Best Wood for Raised Garden Beds (and Other Materials)

Material choice is where most beginners get confused, and where you can either spend smart or waste money.

Cedar Raised Garden Bed, The Gold Standard

Natural cedar is the most recommended wood for raised garden beds, and it’s not even close. Cedar contains natural oils that resist rot and repel insects without any chemical treatment. A well-built cedar raised garden bed typically lasts 10-20 years outdoors, even in wet climates.

You’ll find cedar at Home Depot and Lowe’s in the dimensional lumber section. Look for “western red cedar”, it’s the most widely available variety for DIY builds.

Cost: Cedar runs about 20-40% more than pine, but the longevity makes it cheaper per year of use.

Other Wood Options

• Redwood: Similar performance to cedar. Hard to find outside the western US.
• Douglas fir: Cheaper, but will need replacement after 3-5 years.
• Pine: The inexpensive raised garden bed choice. Works fine for a season or two, or if you plan to paint/seal it.
• Modern ACQ pressure-treated lumber: Generally considered safe for vegetable garden use by most gardening organizations, but it’s a personal call, many gardeners prefer to avoid it around edibles.

Galvanized Steel and Cattle Trough Options

Galvanized tubs and cattle troughs are having a major moment in the DIY gardening world, and for good reason.

A standard livestock water tank (typically 2×8 feet or round) makes a ready-made raised garden box with almost no assembly. You drill drainage holes in the bottom, fill with soil mix, and start planting. They last practically forever.

Galvanized steel doesn’t leach anything harmful into soil at concentrations that affect plant or human health, this is generally agreed upon in the gardening community.

Where to find them: farm supply stores, Tractor Supply Co., or sometimes Home Depot in rural areas.

—

How to Fill a Raised Garden Bed: Soil Mix and Cubic Yards

Building the frame is the fun part. Filling it right is the part that actually determines whether your plants thrive or struggle.

The Classic Raised Bed Soil Mix

The go-to formula used by most experienced gardeners is a mix of:

• 1/3 topsoil (bulk or bagged)
• 1/3 compost (aged, not fresh)
• 1/3 coarse material, perlite, aged wood chips, or coarse sand

This gives you rich garden soil with excellent drainage and plenty of organic matter. It’s the base of what’s often called “Mel’s Mix” in the square-foot gardening world.

How Many Bags of Soil Do You Need?

Here’s the math for a standard 4 x 8 raised bed at 12 inches deep:

Volume = 4 ft × 8 ft × 1 ft = 32 cubic feet

• A typical 1.5-cubic-foot bag of soil fills 1.5 cubic feet
• 32 ÷ 1.5 = about 21-22 bags of soil

Buying in bulk cubic yards from a landscape supplier is almost always cheaper. One cubic yard = 27 cubic feet. For a 32-cubic-foot bed, you need just over 1 cubic yard of each material if splitting your mix into thirds.

Pro tip: Many municipal compost programs give away free or low-cost compost by the cubic yards in spring. Call your local waste management office, it’s worth it.

What Not to Fill a Raised Bed With

• Pure topsoil, it compacts like concrete in a closed bed
• Fresh uncomposted wood chips, they pull nitrogen out of the soil as they break down
• Native clay soil, drains terribly
• Random “fill dirt” from construction sites, full of weed seeds and debris

Can you fill a raised bed with just compost? Short answer: not ideal. Pure compost dries out fast, shrinks significantly, and can be too rich for some plants. Mix it with topsoil and a drainage material.

—

Foto: Mateusz Feliksik via Pexels

Raised Bed Vegetable Garden Layouts and Planting Plans

You’ve built the bed. Now what goes in it?

Square-Foot Garden Planting Plans

The square-foot method divides your raised bed vegetable garden into a grid of 1-foot squares. Each square gets a different crop, planted at a density based on the plant’s size.

Sample layout for a 4×8 raised bed (32 squares total):

Use a garden planner tool to map this out digitally before planting. The Almanac Garden Planner from the Old Farmer’s Almanac is one of the most referenced free tools for this, it shows spacing, companion planting, and seasonal timing all in one place.

Easiest Vegetables for a Raised Bed (Including Beginners)

If this is your first raised bed vegetable garden, start with plants that actually want to grow:

• Lettuce and salad greens: Fast, forgiving, low-maintenance
• Bush beans: Plant the seed, water it, done
• Zucchini: Almost impossible to kill, very productive
• Kale: Hardy, grows in cool weather, produces all season
• Cherry tomatoes: More forgiving than large varieties

The lowest-maintenance vegetables overall tend to be kale, Swiss chard, and herbs like mint (keep mint in a separate container, it spreads aggressively).

What Vegetables Don’t Grow Well in Raised Beds?

Sprawling plants are the main issue, pumpkins, large watermelons, and giant squash varieties will take over your entire yard. Corn is also a poor choice for small raised beds because it needs a large mass planting for wind pollination to work properly.

Raised Vegetable Garden Bed Plans for Beginners, Simple Rotation Plan

Rotate your crops each season to prevent soil depletion and disease buildup:

• Year 1: Heavy feeders (tomatoes, squash, corn)
• Year 2: Light feeders (carrots, beets, herbs)
• Year 3: Soil builders (beans, peas, they fix nitrogen back into the soil)

—

Inexpensive Raised Garden Bed Plans: Build One for Under $100

A $100 raised garden bed is totally doable. Here’s how to keep costs down:

Choose pine over cedar. Yes, it won’t last as long. But if you’re testing whether you even like gardening, a pine bed that lasts 3-4 seasons makes more sense than a cedar bed at twice the price.

Buy longer boards and cut them yourself. A 16-foot pine 1×6 is often cheaper per linear foot than buying two 8-foot pieces. Most stores cut lumber for free or for a small fee.

Get compost free. Many cities offer free compost pickup days. A quick search for “[your city] free compost” will usually find something.

Skip the fancy hardware. Standard exterior deck screws from any home improvement store work perfectly. You don’t need specialty landscape timber screws.

Build a 4×4 instead of 4×8. Half the lumber, half the soil, still plenty of growing space for a beginner.

For complete DIY raised garden bed plans with cut lists already calculated and material lists priced out, this resource covers everything in one place: Get the full raised garden bed plan set here

—

Foto: Andrew Swarga via Pexels

DIY Raised Garden Bed Ideas: 3 Styles at a Glance

If you’re still deciding which style fits your situation, here’s a quick comparison:

All three work. The right one is whatever you’ll actually build this weekend instead of putting it off again.

—

FAQ: Raised Garden Bed Plans

What are the best dimensions for a raised garden bed?

The most popular size is 4×8 feet, which gives you easy reach from both sides without stepping in the bed. Width should never exceed 4 feet so you can reach the center. Depth should be at least 12 inches for most vegetables, and 18-24 inches for root crops like carrots and beets.

How much does it cost to build a raised garden bed?

A basic 4×8 cedar raised garden bed typically costs between $80 and $150 in materials, depending on lumber prices in your area. Budget builds using pine or untreated wood can come in under $100. Elevated beds with legs or galvanized metal options tend to run $150, $300 or more.

What is the best wood to use for a raised garden bed?

Natural cedar is the top choice for raised garden beds. It resists rot and insects naturally without chemical treatments, and it typically lasts 10-20 years outdoors. Redwood is another great option but harder to find. Avoid pressure-treated wood with older chemical treatments, modern ACQ-treated lumber is generally considered safe for vegetable gardens.

How do I fill a raised garden bed cheaply?

The most cost-effective fill is a mix of topsoil, compost, and a coarse material like perlite or aged wood chips. You can source free compost from many municipal programs. Avoid filling entirely with bagged soil, it gets expensive fast. For a 4x8x12-inch bed, you need roughly 32 cubic feet of mix.

Can I build a raised garden bed with legs for easier access?

Yes, and it’s a great option for people with back pain or mobility limitations. Elevated raised garden beds with legs are typically built to 30-36 inches tall so you can work from a standing position. The frame is built the same way as a standard bed, then attached to 4×4 post legs.

How many bags of soil do I need for a 4×8 raised bed?

A standard 4×8 raised bed that is 12 inches deep holds 32 cubic feet of soil. A typical 1.5-cubic-foot bag fills about 1.5 cubic feet, so you need roughly 21-22 bags of soil to fill it completely. Buying in bulk cubic yards from a landscape supplier is almost always cheaper for beds this size.

Is it cheaper to build a raised bed or buy one?

Building your own raised garden bed is almost always cheaper than buying a pre-made kit, especially for larger sizes. A DIY 4×8 cedar bed can cost $80, $150 in materials, while comparable kits often run $200, $400. Building also lets you customize dimensions and wood thickness to match your needs.

How deep should a raised bed be for growing vegetables?

Most vegetables do well in 12 inches of depth. Root crops like carrots and parsnips prefer 18-24 inches. Leafy greens and herbs can manage in as little as 6-8 inches. If the bed sits on native soil, plant roots can grow deeper, so shallower beds still work well when placed directly on the ground.

What vegetables don’t grow well in raised beds?

Sprawling plants like pumpkins, watermelons, and large squash varieties are awkward in raised beds because the vines spread out significantly. Corn also performs poorly in small raised beds since it needs mass planting for wind pollination. Most other vegetables thrive in a raised garden setting.

What not to fill a raised garden bed with?

Avoid filling a raised bed with pure topsoil, which compacts badly in a contained space. Never use clay-heavy native soil alone, fresh uncomposted wood chips, or rocks as the primary fill. Also skip fill materials that haven’t been certified weed-free, since you’ll spend the whole season pulling weeds instead of growing food.

You’ve got a bare porch, a free weekend, and the itch to build something real with your hands. The problem? You’ve clicked through a dozen sites and found either vague “inspiration” posts with no actual dimensions, or overly complicated woodworking jargon that assumes you already own a fully equipped shop.

Here’s the short answer: you don’t need any of that. A solid DIY porch swing can be built from off-the-shelf lumber in a single weekend, with basic tools, for well under $150. This guide gives you everything, free porch swing plans, cut lists, materials lists, and step-by-step instructions, for 4ft, 5ft, and 6ft swings.

This article contains affiliate links. We may earn a commission on purchases made through them, at no extra cost to you.

Quick Summary, What You’ll Find Here:

✅ A collection of free porch swing plans with PDF download options for every size

✅ Complete materials list and shopping list for each plan

✅ Exact cut list and dimensions for 4ft, 5ft, and 6ft swings

✅ Step-by-step assembly instructions with notes on hanging hardware

✅ Wood recommendations, cost estimates, and beginner-friendly tips

—

Free Porch Swing Plans (With PDF Download)

Not all free plans are created equal. Some give you a pretty picture and call it a tutorial. The ones below actually give you what you need: dimensions, diagrams, cutting lists, and enough detail to start cutting wood today.

Here’s a curated collection of the best free project plan options, organized by style and difficulty.

Plan #1, Classic 2×4 Porch Swing (5ft, Beginner)

This is the most popular 2×4 porch swing design on the internet, and for good reason. It uses nothing but 2×4 lumber and basic hardware. No fancy joinery. No router. Just straight cuts and screws.

Ana White popularized this style on her site, where she shares free woodworking plans with color photos, diagrams, and a full shopping list. It’s genuinely one of the best resources for a beginner porch swing project.

• Seat width: 60 inches (5ft)
• Back angle: approximately 10-15 degrees
• Weight capacity: 500+ lbs when properly hung
• Build time: 6-8 hours
• Difficulty: Beginner

→ Get the full plan details and downloadable PDF here

Plan #2, Traditional Slat-Back Porch Swing (6ft, Intermediate)

This design uses 2×4 and 2×6 lumber for the frame with 1×4 slats for the seat and back. It’s a wider swing, great for two adults. Rockler has published similar plans with full assembly instructions and exploded-view diagrams.

• Seat width: 72 inches (6ft)
• Slat spacing: 3⁄4 inch between seat boards
• Back supports: 3 vertical slats, evenly spaced
• Build time: 8-10 hours
• Difficulty: Intermediate

Plan #3, Simple 4ft Porch Swing (Compact, Perfect for Small Porches)

The 4ft swing is ideal if your porch is tight on space or you want a solo swing. This plan comes in at the lowest material cost of the three and can be completed in a single afternoon.

• Seat width: 48 inches (4ft)
• Frame: 2×4 construction throughout
• Build time: 4-6 hours
• Difficulty: Beginner

Plan #4, Adirondack-Style Porch Swing (5ft, Intermediate)

Love the look of an Adirondack chair? This style translates beautifully into a swing. The back is slightly more angled and the armrests are wider. The Family Handyman has featured similar designs. You’ll need full scale patterns for the curved armrests, these can be printed and used as a porch swing template directly on the wood.

• Seat width: 60 inches (5ft)
• Back angle: 20-25 degrees (more reclined than a classic swing)
• Build time: 10-12 hours
• Difficulty: Intermediate

Plan #5, Modern Farmhouse Porch Swing (6ft, Beginner-Intermediate)

Horizontal slats, clean lines, no decorative cuts. This design looks like it came from a boutique furniture store. It works well with both stained and painted finishes.

• Seat width: 72 inches (6ft)
• Seat boards: 1×4 cedar or pine, spaced 1⁄2 inch apart
• Back supports: horizontal slats instead of vertical
• Build time: 8-10 hours

Plan #6, Hanging Porch Bench Swing (4ft, Beginner)

Sometimes called a porch bench swing, this is the no-frills version. No armrests. Just a flat seat with a slatted back. It’s the fastest build on this list and a great first project.

• Seat width: 48 inches (4ft)
• Total lumber: under 40 linear feet of 2×4
• Build time: 3-5 hours
• Difficulty: Complete beginner

Comparison Table: All 6 Plans at a Glance

—

Materials List and Shopping List for Each Plan

One of the biggest reasons people abandon DIY projects halfway through is showing up to Home Depot without a real list. Here’s a breakdown by swing size so you can walk in and grab exactly what you need.

Shopping List for a 4ft Porch Swing

Lumber:

• (4) 2×4 x 8ft boards
• (3) 1×4 x 6ft boards (for seat slats)
• (2) 1×4 x 4ft boards (for back slats)

Hardware:

• (2) 3/8-inch eye bolts with nuts and washers
• (1) box of 21⁄2-inch exterior screws (#8)
• (1) box of 15⁄8-inch exterior screws (#8)
• Wood glue (exterior grade)
• Sandpaper, 80 and 120 grit

Finishing:

• Exterior wood stain or paint of your choice
• Polyurethane sealer (optional but recommended)

Hanging Hardware:

• (4) quick-link connectors (3⁄8-inch, galvanized)
• 10 feet of galvanized chain or braided nylon rope rated to 400+ lbs
• (2) ceiling hooks or swing hangers rated to 500 lbs

Shopping List for a 5ft Porch Swing

Lumber:

• (6) 2×4 x 8ft boards
• (4) 1×4 x 6ft boards
• (1) 2×6 x 6ft board (for seat frame front rail)

Hardware:

• (2) 3/8-inch eye bolts
• (1) box of 21⁄2-inch exterior screws
• (1) box of 15⁄8-inch exterior screws
• Exterior wood glue

Hanging Hardware:

• Same as the 4ft list but use a 500 lb minimum rating

Shopping List for a 6ft Porch Swing

Lumber:

• (8) 2×4 x 8ft boards
• (5) 1×4 x 8ft boards
• (2) 2×6 x 8ft boards (frame and seat rails)

Hardware:

• (4) 3/8-inch eye bolts (front and back of each arm)
• (2) boxes of 21⁄2-inch exterior screws
• (1) box of 15⁄8-inch exterior screws

Hanging Hardware:

• 14 feet of galvanized chain or rated rope
• Heavy-duty ceiling swing hangers (600 lb rating minimum for a 6ft swing)

You can find all of these at Lowe’s or Home Depot. Prices vary by region but the lumber portion is usually the biggest cost.

—

Cut List and Dimensions: Standard Porch Swing Sizes (4ft, 5ft, 6ft)

This is the section most free guides skip, and it’s the one that actually lets you start cutting. Here’s the cutting list for each standard size.

4ft Swing Cut List (48-inch seat width)

5ft Swing Cut List (60-inch seat width)

6ft Swing Cut List (72-inch seat width)

Pro tip: Always add 10% to your lumber when ordering. Cuts go wrong, boards split, and you do not want to stop mid-build for a hardware store run.

What Are the Standard Measurements for a Porch Swing?

This is one of the most-asked questions. Here are the standard measurements most builders use:

• Seat height from ground (when hanging): 17-19 inches
• Seat depth: 18-20 inches
• Back height above seat: 20-24 inches
• Back angle: 10-20 degrees from vertical
• Hanging chain length: 10-14 inches on each side
• Clearance from wall: minimum 14 inches behind the swing

—

Foto: Luca Dross via Pexels

Step-by-Step Assembly Instructions

This is a general build sequence that applies to most of the plans above. Adjust measurements to your chosen size.

Step 1, Cut All Your Lumber First

Before you touch the drill, make all your cuts using the cut list for your chosen size. Label each piece with painter’s tape and a marker. This saves enormous confusion during assembly.

Use a miter saw for clean, square cuts. A circular saw works too, just use a square as a guide for accuracy.

Step 2, Build the Side Frames

Each side frame is made of one front leg, one back leg, and a side seat rail connecting them. The back leg is taller and angled, this creates the reclined feel of the seat.

Drill pilot holes before every screw to prevent splitting. Use two 21⁄2-inch screws at each joint for strength.

Step 3, Attach the Front and Back Seat Rails

Once both side frames are assembled, connect them with the front and back seat rails. These run the full width of the swing (48″, 60″, or 72″ depending on your plan).

Clamp everything square before driving any screws. A speed square is your best friend here.

Step 4, Install the Seat Slats

Space your seat slats evenly across the front and back seat rails. Use a 1⁄2-inch spacer (a piece of scrap wood works fine) between each slat to keep the gaps consistent.

Pre-drill every hole. This is especially important with 1×4 boards, they split easily near the ends.

Step 5, Build and Attach the Back Frame

The back frame consists of the top back rail and the vertical back supports (slats). Assemble this as a separate unit first, then attach it to the back legs of the side frames.

The angle of the back is what makes the swing comfortable. Don’t skip the 10-degree tilt, it makes a real difference.

Step 6, Add the Armrests

Armrests sit on top of the front and back legs. Cut them to length, round the front corners with a jigsaw if you want a softer look, and attach from underneath with two screws per side.

Step 7, Sand Everything

Start with 80-grit to knock down rough spots, then finish with 120-grit for a smooth surface. Pay extra attention to the seat slats, that’s where skin contacts wood.

Step 8, Finish with Stain or Paint

Apply an exterior-grade wood stain or paint. Two coats minimum. Let it dry fully before hanging.

Step 9, Install the Hanging Hardware

Drill holes through the armrests (or through designated rope holes in the seat frame) for your eye bolts. Thread the bolts through, add a washer and nut, and tighten firmly.

Attach your chain or rope to the eye bolts and to the ceiling swing frame or ceiling hooks. Make sure the swing hangs level, adjust chain links until it’s even.

How do I hang a porch swing safely? Locate your ceiling joists with a stud finder. Use eye bolts or swing hangers rated for at least 500 lbs, never drywall anchors alone. For a 6ft swing, use a 600 lb minimum rating. Always test by pressing down hard on each side before sitting.

Do you need a permit to hang a porch swing? In most cases, no. A standard hanging porch swing on an existing porch structure doesn’t require a permit. But if you’re building a freestanding swing frame in the yard, check local codes, some municipalities require permits for permanent outdoor structures. Screened-in porches often have their own permit requirements, separate from the swing itself.

—

Best Wood for a Porch Swing (and What to Avoid)

Choosing the right wood matters more than most people think. The wrong choice leads to rot, splinters, and a swing that looks rough after one winter.

Top Wood Choices for a DIY Outdoor Swing

Cedar is the gold standard for outdoor furniture. It’s naturally rot-resistant, lightweight, and takes stain beautifully. It costs more than pine but lasts significantly longer outside.

Pressure-treated pine is the budget pick. It’s widely available at Home Depot and Lowe’s, resistant to rot and insects, and easy to work with. The downside: it’s heavier than cedar and needs time to dry before staining (usually 2-4 weeks after purchase).

Redwood is excellent, similar properties to cedar, gorgeous color, but it’s harder to find and more expensive depending on your region.

Douglas fir is a decent middle-ground option. Stronger than pine, more affordable than cedar. It needs a good sealer to hold up outside.

What to Avoid

Regular (untreated) pine indoors: Standard white pine will rot quickly when exposed to moisture. If you’re using pine, it must be pressure-treated or well-sealed with multiple coats of exterior finish.

MDF or particle board: Never. These materials fail completely when wet.

Exotic hardwoods (teak, ipe): Beautiful but expensive and hard on saw blades. Great for advanced builders, not ideal for a weekend beginner porch swing project.

What Type of Wood Is Best for a Swing Set?

For outdoor swings specifically, cedar and pressure-treated pine are the top picks among most woodworkers and builders. Cedar wins on appearance and ease of finishing. Pressure-treated pine wins on cost and availability.

—

Foto: Keith Cassill via Pexels

How Much Does It Cost to Build a Porch Swing?

Let’s talk numbers, because this is a big part of why people choose to build a porch swing instead of buying one.

Cost Breakdown by Swing Size

These estimates are based on pressure-treated pine at average 2026 big-box store prices. Cedar runs about 30-50% higher on the lumber side.

Is it cheaper to build your own swing? Yes, significantly. A comparable store-bought wooden porch swing typically runs $250 to $600 or more for a decent quality piece. Building your own with a free project plan cuts that cost by more than half, and you get a swing built to your exact size.

Hidden Costs to Budget For

• Sandpaper and finishing supplies: $15, $30
• Clamps (if you don’t own any): $20, $40 for a basic set
• Pocket hole jig (optional): $25, $45 (Kreg makes a great starter version)
• Stain or paint: $20, $35 per quart of exterior grade

Total tools investment for a first-time builder who owns nothing: roughly $50, $100 more. But those tools pay for themselves on every future project.

—

Beginner Porch Swing Project Tips: Build in a Weekend

Here’s the honest truth, most people overthink this build. A simple to build porch swing is genuinely achievable for someone who has never done woodworking before. You just need to go in with the right expectations.

Tips That Actually Help

Use a pocket hole jig. A Kreg jig (available at Lowe’s and Home Depot) creates strong, hidden joints without complex woodworking skills. Many free step-by-step guide plans are specifically written around this tool.

Pre-drill everything. No exceptions. Splitting a board near the end is the #1 beginner mistake, and it’s 100% preventable.

Let lumber acclimate. If you bought pressure-treated lumber, stack it with spacers in your garage for a day before cutting. Warped cuts start with warped boards.

Watch YouTube first. Seriously. Channels covering porch swing blueprints and woodworking basics will show you things in 10 minutes that would take an hour to explain in text. Popular Woodworking and The Family Handyman both have solid video content.

Use SketchUp for modifications. If you want to change the dimensions, wider seat, taller back, SketchUp Free lets you visualize it before cutting a single board. It’s free and works in a browser.

Download a PDF before starting. Having the free PDF download on your phone or printed out keeps you from constantly searching your browser while your hands are covered in sawdust.

If you want a plan that pulls all of this together, dimensions, diagrams, shopping list, and step-by-step instructions in one place, this resource gives you everything you need to start today.

Can a Complete Beginner Build This?

Yes. The 4ft bench swing and the classic 2×4 5ft design are both genuinely beginner-friendly. You need to be able to use a drill, make straight cuts, and measure twice. That’s it.

The porch swing patterns and full scale patterns for armrests sound intimidating but they’re just paper cutouts you trace onto the wood, it’s more arts and crafts than woodworking.

How level does the ground need to be for a swing set? For a hanging porch swing, ground level doesn’t matter at all, the swing hangs from the ceiling, not the ground. If you’re building a freestanding swing frame to stand in the yard, the ground should be reasonably level (within 2-3 inches), or you can adjust the legs.

—

Foto: Lynn Nash via Pexels

Porch Swing Plans for Specific Situations

2×4 Porch Swing Plans: Can You Build an Entire Swing From Just 2x4s?

Absolutely. The 2×4 porch swing is actually the most popular design category online for exactly this reason, it simplifies the shopping list to one lumber dimension and keeps costs low. The seat slats are cut from 2x4s laid flat. The back slats are narrower cuts from the same boards.

The tradeoff is appearance, a 2×4 swing looks chunkier than one with 1×4 slats. Some people love that look. If you want a sleeker profile, mix in some 1x4s for the slats.

Porch Swing Plans for Small Porches

The 4ft swing is your answer here. At 48 inches wide, it fits comfortably on a porch that’s at least 8 feet wide. Make sure you have at least 14 inches of clearance between the back of the swing and the wall, this prevents the swing from banging when it moves.

Also check that your ceiling joists can support the load. A ceiling joist over a porch is typically 2×6 or 2×8, more than enough for a properly installed swing hanger.

Front Porch Swing vs. Backyard Swing

A front porch swing is usually designed for looks as much as function, it’s visible from the street, so finish and style matter more. Go cedar, use a quality stain, and sand to at least 120-grit for a smooth, polished result.

A backyard swing is more about durability and comfort. Pressure-treated pine with a solid exterior paint job works great and handles weather with less maintenance.

—

Hanging Hardware and Swing Frame Options

The swing itself is only half the project. The hanging system determines whether it’s safe.

Ceiling-Hung Swing Hardware

For a porch with a covered ceiling, you need:

• Ceiling swing hangers or eye bolts: rated 500-600 lbs minimum
• Galvanized chain or braided rope: matched to the weight rating
• Quick-link connectors: for easy adjustment and leveling

The hanging hardware should be installed directly into ceiling joists, never into drywall alone. Use a stud finder to locate joists, then use a drill bit slightly smaller than your bolt diameter.

Freestanding Swing Frame

If your porch doesn’t have a suitable ceiling, or you want to put the swing in the yard, a freestanding swing frame is the answer. These are built from 4×4 or 4×6 lumber in an A-frame design. Many outdoor swing plans and backyard swing plans include both the swing and the frame in the same PDF download.

The frame needs to be anchored well. Drive the legs into the ground or use concrete anchors for a permanent installation. House One has published guides on freestanding outdoor swing frame construction that are worth referencing.

Looking for a complete set of plans that includes both the swing and the frame? Check this out.

—

FAQ: Free Porch Swing Plans

What tools do I need to build a porch swing from scratch?

You need basic tools: a circular saw or miter saw, a drill/driver, a tape measure, a square, and sandpaper in 80 and 120 grit. Clamps are very helpful. A pocket hole jig (like a Kreg jig) makes the build cleaner but isn’t required for a beginner porch swing project.

How long does it take to build a DIY porch swing?

Most DIY porch swing builds take one weekend, roughly 6 to 10 hours including cutting, assembly, and finishing. Simpler designs like the 4ft bench swing can be done in 4 to 6 hours. The Adirondack style with shaped armrests takes the longest.

What size lumber should I use for a porch swing?

The most common choice is 2×4 and 2×6 lumber for the frame, with 1×4 boards for the seat and back slats. Using off-the-shelf lumber dimensions keeps costs low and makes the cutting list straightforward. Avoid anything smaller than 2×4 for structural parts.

How do I hang a porch swing safely from the ceiling?

Locate your ceiling joists first with a stud finder. Install heavy-duty eye bolts or swing hangers rated for at least 500 lbs, more for a 6ft swing. Use galvanized chain or rated rope, connect with quick links, and test by applying firm downward pressure on each end before sitting.

Can a beginner build a porch swing with basic tools?

Yes. A simple to build 2×4 design is one of the best first woodworking projects out there. If you can use a drill and make straight cuts, you can build this. Plans from resources like Ana White are written specifically for people with zero woodworking experience.

Where can I download free porch swing plans as a PDF?

Ana White’s website, Rockler, and The Family Handyman all offer free PDF download plans. Pinterest links to dozens more. YouTube channels often link to free project plan PDFs in the video description. You can also find porch swing blueprints and porch swing patterns on woodworking forums like Sawmill Creek.